Transcript ·　文字实录

冯欣：很多中国的大学毕业生经常自嘲，自己的“毕业等于失业"， 但是人力资源和社会保障部最新的一份就业报告显示，岗位空缺其实大于求职的人数。是什么造成了用人单位的“招工难"？又是什么让求职者难以找到这些招工的雇主？在这个毕业季，《解析中国》将用两期节目为您深度解析这些问题。第一期关注“供"，提供工作的人，第二期关注“求"，寻求工作的人。首先让我们听听招聘会上的雇主们都怎么说

Feng Xin: Many college graduates often mock their graduation as a "ceremony of unemployment". But the latest job market report from the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security shows the jobs available actually outnumber job seekers. What makes it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers? And what makes it difficult for job seekers to find such employers? This graduation season, Digest China will present a two-part series taking a close look at these questions. The first episode will focus on those who supply jobs, and the second part will look at those who demand jobs. First, let's go to a couple of job fairs to find out what employers have to say.

记者:从用人单位的角度来讲，您认为招工难吗？

Respondent: From an employer's point of view, is it difficult to recruit workers?

受访者：现在来说，招到合适的人员确实是比较难的

Respondent: It is difficult to recruit the right people.

受访者：我们今年尤其感觉比较难。坦率地讲，高端的、研发类的人才，包括工程技术人员比较难。

Respondent: We find this year particularly hard. High-end, research and development and engineering staff members are difficult to recruit.

记者：您能具体给我讲一下难在哪里吗？

Reporter: Can you tell me specifically what makes it difficult to recruit workers?

受访者：现在学生一步入社会感觉特别迷茫，有的是不知道自己想找什么样工作。

Respondent: Graduates are confused when they step into society. Some have no idea what kind of jobs they are looking for.

受访者：最大困难就是跟所有的人讲解，这是很大的困难，我觉得现在大学生大部分不去了解公司，对企业文化了解不是很深，他（们）是盲目地去投简历。

Respondent: The biggest difficulty is explaining (the job) to everyone. I think most graduates don't spend time learning about the company. They know little about the company's entrepreneurial culture but blindly send their resumes.

受访者：怎么讲呢？比如说他在我这工作大概两三个月，或者说时间不太长，就可能发生离职这种现象。

Respondent：For example, some may work here for only two to three months before quitting the job.

受访者：过去招工我们是一年招一次，现在变成常态化的了，几乎可能两三个月就得来招，人员变动特别大。

Respondent: In the past, we recruited new employees once a year, but now we do it regularly. We almost have to recruit every two or three months. Employees flow quite frequently.

受访者：应聘者都是站在自己的角度去思考，就是说这企业你能给我多少，给我多少钱，我才去你那里面试。

Respondent: Job seekers all think from their own stance. They only care about the salary offered even before attending a job interview.

受访者：他们有时候可能把自己想得太高了，就是咱们通常说的眼高手低。

Respondent: They sometimes think too highly of themselves.

受访者：连他们自己都不知道去选择什么行业, 难就难在这了。

Respondent: The difficulty lies in the fact that they don't even know what job they want.

记者：招聘的过程中，应聘者比较关注的问题有哪些？

Reporter：What issues do job seekers care about most when looking for a job?

受访者：薪金，主要就是薪金，还有未来的发展空间。

Respondent: Salary. Mainly salary. And also their future development.

记者：在招工的过程中，有哪些素质是你们用人单位看重，而应聘者却普遍比较缺乏的？

Reporter：What qualities do you value and expect from job candidates but most of whom lack?

受访者：态度吧，第一点。这个招聘会市场这么多人在招聘，甚至我们面试官比这些应聘的都多，他们觉得无所谓，我可以再选择下一个。

Respondent: First of all, attitude. There are many employers in this job market – even more than job seekers. They think it doesn't matter, because they can always choose the next (employer).

受访者：对自己的一种规划性，很多人是看不清自己的。

Respondent: Self-planning. Many people can't see themselves through.

受访者：我最看中的是他的学习能力。

Respondent: I value most the ability to learn.

受访者：就是对文化的认同感吧。

Respondent: A sense of company identity.

记者：那如果让您用一个词来形容招工的过程，您会用什么词呢？

Reporter：Which word would you choose to describe the process of recruitment?

受访者：摸着石头过河。

Respondent: Wade across the stream by feeling the way. (Chinese idiom)

受访者：纠结吧。

Respondent: Struggling.

受访者：磨练，我觉得这是对我自己（的）一个磨练。

Respondent: Exercise. I think it's an exercise for myself.

用人单位为什么招不到足够的人？更重要的是，合适的人？在回答这个问题之前，让我们先看一下事情的全貌。

What makes it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers, and more importantly, ideal workers? Before answering this question, let's take a look at the big picture.

2011年，用人单位共招聘人员近2070万次，有1960万人求职。也就是说，每100个求职者相对应的岗位是106个。2012年第一季度，这一比例上升至100比108，这些数据来自人力资源和社会保障部对全国100多个城市劳动市场的监测。

In 2011, China provided nearly 20.7 million jobs for 19.6 million job seekers. This means for every 100 candidates there were 106 jobs available. The ratio went up to 100:108 in the first quarter of 2012. These numbers come from the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security's job-market monitoring of about 100 Chinese cities.

2011年，中国的第三产业需要的人数最多，占总用人需求的59％。相比之下，第二产业约占40％，第一产业1.8％。但是从2001年到2011年，第三产业，如服务业和批发零售业需求的人数下降了13%。第二产业，如制造业和建筑业需求的人数增长了13%。百分之八十八的用人单位对求职者的文化程度有要求，大部分（38.5%）要求求职者有高中文化程度，这38.5%中，有超过60％的用人单位要求中等职业技术学历。在所有对文化程度有要求的用人单位中，只有8.5％要求求职者有大学学历。

As of 2011, China's tertiary industry demanded the most employees, taking up to 59 percent of all job seekers, whereas the second industry took up around 40 percent and the primary industry, 1.8 percent. However, the tertiary industry, with fields like services and retail, needed 13 percent fewer employees between 2001 and 2011, whereas the second industry, which includes manufacturing and construction among others, needed 13 percent more. Eighty-eight percent of employers have specific education requirements for job candidates. Many require a high school education. Of that 38.5 percent, more than 60 percent require professional diplomas. Of employers who do have education requirements, only 8.5 percent require university diplomas or bachelor's degrees.

这些年中国劳动市场究竟有什么变化？我们在演播室电话采访了中国就业促进会副会长陈宇。

How has China's job market changed over the years? We called Chen Yu from our studio. He is the vice-chairman of the China Association for Employment Promotion.

冯欣：陈副会长，这几年我们国家的就业形势发生了什么变化？

Feng Xin: Mr Chen, how has China's job market changed in recent years?

陈宇：过去我们是两头，一头是低素质的、劳动能力比较弱的群体就业有困难，主要是农民工，也包括下岗再就业的人员；还有一组困难的群体，就是大学生。这几年就出现一个新的情况，农民工是越来越不困难了，大学生就业困难，而且越来越困难。

Chen Yu: In the past, two groups had difficulties (finding jobs). One consisted of people with limited education and capability, who were mainly migrant workers and laid-off workers. Another group was college graduates. (But) a new phenomenon emerged in recent years. It's getting less difficult for migrant workers to find jobs but even more difficult for college graduates.

冯欣：这个变化是从什么时候开始的？

Feng Xin: Since when did this occur?

陈宇：大概应该是从最近五年，可能是这样两个原因：农民工这边，农民工的年龄结构和诉求都发生变化，现在90后的农民工，他们不会只满足于有一个工作，挣一份工资，你用过去的廉价劳动力的政策来吸引他们已经是不可能了。大学生的问题是这样，我们国家的大学扩招第一批毕业生应该是在2003年，就是从2003到2012这十年内，大学毕业生的人数从一百万增加到七百万，劳动力市场上大学生的供给越来越多，但是中国的经济始终还是处在全球产业链的低端，它对高素质、高技能劳动者的需求是有限的。

Chen Yu: About five years ago. I think there were two reasons. In terms of migrant workers, their age and requests have changed significantly. Many migrant workers who were born in the 1990s are no longer satisfied with making a simple living. It's no longer possible to attract them with a cheap-labor policy. In terms of college graduates, the expansion of college admission has brought significant changes. The first batch of students (of the expansion) graduated in 2003. From 2003 to 2012, the number of college graduates increased from 1 million to 7 million. Although there are more college graduates in the labor market, China has limited needs toward qualified and high-skilled workers, because its economy is still at the bottom end of the global industrial chain.

虽然岗位空缺大于求职人数，但是要求大学学历的用人单位却很有限，那么中国大学生的就业情况究竟如何呢？

Although it seems China has more jobs available than job seekers, those jobs that require a college degree are quite limited. At what rate are China's college graduates finding employment?

三月，一家独立研究机构，麦可思研究院对中国2000多所大学的25万名大学毕业生进行了问卷调查。根据麦可思的研究报告，2011年，中国有600多万名大学毕业生，其中，90.2％在毕业后6个月找到了工作。这家机构还发现，2008届大学毕业生毕业三年内，平均为2.3个雇主工作过。

In March, My China Occupational Skills, or MyCOS, an independent research institute, conducted a survey of more than 250,000 college graduates from more than 2,000 Chinese universities and colleges. According to MyCOS, China had 6 million college graduates in 2011, and 90.2 percent of them found jobs six months after they graduated. The institute also found that on average college graduates of 2008 worked for 2.3 employers in three years.

我们怎样理解这些数字？我们采访了麦可思的研究总监郭娇。

What do these numbers mean? We directed our questions to Guo Jiao, MyCOS' chief research officer.

冯欣：有人说现在大学生的竞争力还不如农民工，对于这种观点，您怎么看？

Feng Xin: Some say nowadays college students are not even as competitive as migrant workers. What do you think of this opinion?

郭娇：首先，我觉得中国大学生的竞争对手不是民工，也不是中职毕业生，因为他们所从事的（行业）还是比较高端的，不管是技术型、应用型，还是研究型的这样一些工作是民工无法完成的。而且很多社会上的这种比较，是把一个刚刚踏上职场的、新鲜的大学毕业生，跟一个可能已经有很多年经验的民工来比较，而且只是他们在当时的收入水平。如果你把一个同样没有经验的大学生和民工比较、如果你可以同时跟踪他们三年到五年看他们以后收入的增长情况，他们在用人单位里面职位的晋升情况，我相信刚才那个结论可能会被改写。

Guo Jiao: First, I don't think migrant workers or vocational school graduates are competing with college graduates, because the latter are still engaged in more intellectually oriented jobs. There are certain jobs that migrant workers are not able to do, like those related to research, technology and application. Nowadays there are a lot of such comparisons, which compares a fresh college graduate with possibly a very experienced migrant worker as well as their current income levels. But if you compare a fresh college graduate with a novice migrant worker, and look at their income levels and promotion in three or five years, I believe it would be a different scenario.

冯欣：所以就是说，看三年到五年长期的情况其实更重要。

Feng Xin: So, it's more important to look at the question with a long-term perspective.

郭娇：对，而且要看他们原来有没有相关的、从事这个行业的经验。

Guo Jiao: Yes, and we also need to see if they have any relevant experience.

冯欣：在我们的街访中，很多用人单位的雇主反映他们招的很多大学生，有的甚至在三个月就换了工作，就离职了，然后他们的流动性很大，您怎么样看待这种现象？

Feng Xin: In our street interviews, many employers said a lot of college graduates quit their jobs within three months. Their mobility is very high. What do you think of this?

郭娇：这种离职率都是由毕业生主动提出的，主要原因我们当时追问了，就是不符合他的期待，可能福利、收入方面偏低。所以，一方面我会觉得这不一定是一件坏的事情，因为说明现在劳动力市场提供了一些空间，让毕业生可以自由地选择；但是另一方面，不管是对用人单位，还是对毕业生来说，这是对他们的一个（损失），不管是他投入的时间，接受的培训，都是一种损失。所以从一开始应聘的过程，到进入用人单位对他入职的培训、对他以后发展空间的规划，我觉得这是需要用人单位和毕业生双方一起来解决的问题。

Guo Jiao: Such resignation is brought up by college graduates themselves. We asked about the reasons. It's mainly because the salary and welfare are lower than their expectations. Therefore, on the one hand, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, because it shows the labor market provides college graduates with some free options. But on the other hand, it's a loss for both employers and college graduates in terms of the time and effort they invested. Therefore, I think employers and graduates should work problems out together from the very beginning of recruitment, to training and to the employee's future development.

如果大学毕业生和用人单位能一起解决问题，那是再好不过的了，但是在我们的采访中，雇主们似乎对大学生有很多指控，所以，我们再次把问题提给了陈宇。

It would be ideal if employers and college graduates could work problems out together, but from our interviews with employers, it seems they have quite a few complaints about college graduates. So again, we spoke to Chen Yu.

冯欣：陈副会长，我们看到用人单位经常说招人并不难，但是招到合适的人特别难，这是什么原因呢?

Feng Xin: Mr Chen, we often hear employers say it's not difficult to recruit people but very difficult to recruit the right people. Why is that?

陈宇：问题的实质就在这个地方。每一个企业都需要能人，都需要有经验、有专业知识、创造性、能动性的人。但是实际上，在职场上你会看到，真正敬业的员工在整个职工队伍中只占一个很小的比例，美国的统计是20％到30％，50％以上的员工是当一天和尚撞一天钟，就是你让我干什么我就干什么，还有20％的人根本不适应职场，来上班就很痛苦，这是美国的情况，我认为全世界的职场都是这样。

Chen Yu: That's the core of the problem. Every company needs capable people with experience, professional skills, creativity and motivation. But you will see those really dedicated employees only take up a small proportion of all workers. A US survey found the percentage lies between 20 percent and 30 percent. More than 50 percent of employees drift through each day and only do whatever they are asked to do. Another 20 percent don't fit into the workplace and feel pained to go to work. This is in the US, but I think it applies to workplaces worldwide.

冯欣：我们采访的一些雇主还告诉我们，他们认为现在的大学生普遍存在一个问题，就是自己不想着为企业创造价值，反而对自己定位不准，高估自己的价值，向企业索要高薪、高职、高福利。您怎么看待企业对大学生的这种指控？

Feng Xin: Some employers told us they believe there is a wide problem existing among college graduates. They think many graduates never try to create value for their companies but think too highly of themselves by asking for higher salaries, positions and welfare. What do you think of such complaints?

陈宇：因为企业、职场是硬约束，它不是慈善机构，也不是义务教育。它用人的目标就是为本企业创造价值、创造利润，所以我就说这个叫“硬约束"。只有你服从它，没有它服从你的。

Chen Yu: Companies and employers exercise hard constraints. They are neither charity organizations nor schools offering compulsory education. Their primary goal is to make a profit. That's why I call it "hard constraints", meaning employees are the ones to follow rules, not the other way round.

招工者也许对大学毕业生有诸多抱怨，但后者是否就应该付全部责任呢？我们电话采访了21世纪教育研究院副院长熊丙奇。

While employers might have complaints about college graduates, are the latter the only party to be blamed? We also called Xiong Bingqi, the vice-president at the 21 Century Education Research Institute.

熊丙奇：用人单位肯定选择企业利益的最大化，但是有的时候也要考虑到学生的薪资待遇的要求，因为只考虑到单方面的利益没有一个双赢的态势，其实也很难形成长久的合作关系。我们注意到，现在在求职应聘过程中间有很多霸王条款，还有很多单位还是以低廉的劳动力来对待大学生，这个实际上是不符合企业的长年战略的，也不可能让这个企业变成一个非常强大的公司。

Xiong Bingqi: It's natural for employers to maximize profits, but they also need to think about graduates' request on salaries. Without a win-win attitude, between employers and employees, it would be difficult to establish long-term cooperation. We can find there are a lot of unfair conditions for employees during recruitment. Many employers still treat college students as cheap laborers. This is in fact not helpful for the company's long-term development. Nor will it make the company grow bigger.

冯欣：熊博士，一些雇主还告诉我们他们面临的一个问题，也是造成他们招工难的一个原因，就是大学生在短期内跳槽、离职的现象比较严重。我们获得的一个数据显示40%多的大学生，在毕业三年内换了工作，那么您怎么看待这种现象呢？

Feng Xin: Dr Xiong, some employers told us another problem they are facing, which also contributes to the difficulty in recruiting employees. That is, it's quite common for college graduates to quit their jobs after a short period. We learned that more than 40 percent of college graduates have changed jobs within three years of their graduation. What do you think of this?

熊丙奇：我觉得两个关键的问题：一个问题是企业的问题，就是我们的企业是不是有能力留住我们的大学生，这是一个很关键的，你不能去把责任全部推给学生。我们可以注意到，现在很多企业其实已经形成很严重的恶性循环了，就是它招来学生就想派上用场，马上就给公司创造价值，不愿给新进来的大学生进行培训，因为他们也乐于去在其他的单位挖那些毕业一两年的学生过来工作。所以说，那些学生怎么跳槽的？就这样跳槽的，就是我们很多企业急功近利，短期的行为导致了这种短期跳槽越来越严重。每一个企业也应该承担这个学生社会化的过程、职业化的过程，如果企业都不愿意承担培养成本，结果就是大家都助长了短期跳槽的风气。

Xiong Bignqi: I think there are two key problems. One lies with employers: Are they capable of keeping college graduates? This is essential. You can't blame the graduates for everything. You may notice many companies have already created a vicious cycle. They want to put fresh college graduates in immediate use and create profit. They hesitate to train these graduates, because they are more willing to steal employees who have a couple of years of experiences from other companies. That's how frequent job-hopping happens. Many employers are very shortsighted and seek quick success. They've made the problem worse. Every employer should take the responsibility of helping graduates become socialized and professional. If employers are all unwilling to do so, they would just help foster an environment for frequent job-hopping.

冯欣：好的，谢谢您

Feng Xin: All right, thank you.

冯欣：在这一期节目中，我们重点关注招工者，专家们在采访中说，中国的产业结构和劳动力市场的变化、中国高校的扩招，以及招工者和求职者对彼此不同的预期都是造成招工难的原因。但是求职者呢？是什么让大学生求职困难呢？请锁定我们的下一期节目

Feng Xin: In this episode, we focused on those who supply jobs. The experts we interviewed said the changes in China's economic structure and work force, the expansion of China's higher education and the dissymmetry in the expectations between employers and college graduates all make it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers. But what about the job seekers? What makes it difficult for college graduates to find jobs? Please be sure to join us in our next episode.

Archive · 往期

Watching China’s budget
解析中国预算

How can ordinary people make sense of China's budget?
普通人如何能弄懂中国的预算？

What makes it difficult for graduates to find jobs?
大学生就业难，难在哪？

Why do we often hear stories about college graduates unable to find jobs? -- 为什么我们经常听到毕业生找不到工作的事？

Does China have enough jobs for college graduates?招工难，难在哪？

What makes it difficult for employers to recruit enough workers? And what makes it difficult for job seekers to find such employers? 是什么造成了用人单位的“招工难”？又是什么让求职者难以找到这些雇主？

Does China have enough money to fund its pensioners?
中国有没有足够的养老钱？

How much money can we receive after we retire? At what age should we start planning our retirement? 退休后我们到底能领多少钱？到什么年龄应该计划养老问题？

Should Chinese people retire later?
中国人是否应该晚退休？

In what social context is the government’s proposal to push back China's retirement age rooted? 6月5日，人力资源和社会保障部提出，未来会逐步将退休年龄推迟五年。这样做有什么深层的社会原因？

Illegal immigrants: China's rise as a land of opportunity?
“三非”外国人：中国成为机会之地？

Is the increase of incidents involving illegal immigrants a symbol of China's rise as a land of opportunity? -- "三非"外国人日益增多，是否意味着中国成为机会的土壤？

Legislating domestic violence in China: Concepts - 中国反家庭暴力立法：概念

Digest China explores the concept of domestic violence and the difficulty in proving it. 本期探讨“家庭暴力”这个概念的本身和取证的困难。

Legislating domestic violence in China: Obstacles - 中国反家庭暴力立法：难点

Digest China explores some decade-long obstacles and difficulties in the process. 本期《解析中国》探讨中国反家庭暴力立法进程中长期存在的阻力和分歧。